"Imperfectly perfect" with Eva Burch

Eva Burch is a fantastic anomaly in American politics. 

Instead of a lawyer who thinks he's a gynecologist, she's a nurse practitioner with a career of actual medical experience that she has brought into government service.

You probably first heard about this rising star in the Democratic Party, a State Senator from Arizona, this March when she rose to make a speech on the floor of the Arizona State Senate. This was almost certainly the first time in American history that a member of a legislature stood to announce that the member was about to have an abortion.

It was an incredible speech and we’re including the entirety of it at the end of this podcast because it’s that important.

History is often shaped when a perfect person hits an imperfect moment. And this is a very imperfect moment. And we wouldn't say that Senator Burch is perfect. But who she is and what she represents is so badly needed at this time that  just in her existence speaks for tens of millions of us who are sick of lawyers who minored in gynecology. 

She also epitomizes why we're so excited about the change that could happen if Democrats win in Arizona in 2024. It could transform millions and millions of lives. 

And she’s helped inspire us to raise our goal to raise $20,024 to help flip both of Arizona’s statehouses this November. We invite you to join our Giving Circle. We honestly believe this is the best way to spend any extra time and money we have as we fight back against the attacks on our freedom this November.

Catch up on all the episodes of “How are you feeling about democracy?” here.

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TRANSCRIPT

Jason Sattler: Your speech was inspirational, but the timing was just uncanny. It set the stage for people understanding what's at stake in Arizona and in the 2024 elections. And I imagine the last two months I've been a whirlwind. What sort of reaction did you get from your constituents? 

Eva Burch: That's definitely true. The timing was imperfectly perfect. It's a bad situation, but it was really a good illustration for what we're experiencing now so that people could understand who this is going to impact and have some stories to go along with what is otherwise really just a concept. And I think that it's so important that we humanize it and that people understand that this is going to be applied in real time and in real life and impact people in a very negative way should this ban go into effect. 

The response from my constituents has been really overwhelming. I just have had countless, literally thousands of emails, phone calls, people reaching out to me through social media, and so many different mediums, but just an overwhelming amount of support that I've gotten.

People who are thanking me, people who are Who are really grateful to feel as though they have a seat at the table. Maybe they have a similar story, but they don't want to tell the whole world about their struggles and their personal medical issues. So I've been really grateful to have a platform and to really be able to expand this conversation and try to create a more honest, more comprehensive picture of what abortion care looks like so that we can make decisions that are based in reality and not only in theory.

Jason Sattler: I hope you don't mind me saying that I'm honored to have the chance to thank you for speaking for families like my own, who've gone through loss like this. But I also want to thank you for just being who you are, which is a unique voice in American history to represent people in elected office. I'm just so glad there's someone like you in politics, who's able to speak for people like us.

It made me think the way our democracy is going, we need a lot more people with medical experience like yours and a lot fewer lawyers who think they're gynecologists. 

I wonder if all this experience you have speaking to patients about these difficult medical issues, having these conversations, knowing the questions to ask, helped you, when you stood up to make that speech in the state senate? 

Eva Burch: Certainly it is not incredibly common to have women of childbearing age in positions of power in state legislatures. So I was unique in that respect, but I think that the reason that my story was as unique as it was because I was still pregnant when I initially made that floor speech.

Absolutely, I think my medical background is what makes that a casual conversation for me. It's not difficult for me to talk about those things. And it's not difficult for me as far as feeling like it's invasive or that this is somehow should be very private to me. I'm an oversharer anyway, but when it comes to medical conversations, I could talk about this all day long. I could talk about my personal medical experiences and I could talk about experiences that I've had with my patients while, of course, maintaining their privacy and about the implications of the decisions that we make in the legislature. I could talk about this stuff all day long, but talking about abortion is not an uncomfortable conversation for me. I worked in reproductive healthcare as a medical provider for a number of years. And I worked in the emergency department. That's the setting where people often end up when they are having a complication in their pregnancies. And so it's been such a common theme and something that I have seen so frequently throughout my personal and my work life that I don't have any reservations about the conversation. 

So it was difficult for me because I have a little bit of stage fright and because it's hard to talk in front of people and to know that it's going to reach a wide audience. We knew the media was going to pick up that speech, but I thought the local media was going to pick up that speech. I had no idea how expansive the reach would be. But what that means is that people are ready to talk about this. It means that that we are ready to have this conversation and that people are identifying with the content of this conversation and that people are wanting and expecting change and that people are concerned about the future of reproductive healthcare in this country and in their home states.

Jason Sattler: In your speech, you referenced the counseling and I'm making giant air quotes here that you were forced to listen to. I know as a man, I'm never going to have to deal with a doctor being forced to give a sermon to me a lecture because a bunch of politicians, didn't like my medical choices. Can you describe how that felt in your unique position of being a medical professional, but also being a representative in the body that helped make this law?

Eva Burch: Yes. And I think that was another reason that it became such a item of interest to people. When we are talking in the abortion conversation, we talk a lot about how we feel if people are pro-life or if they're pro-life. But we don't talk a lot about the nuance and all of the other ways that legislation can impact people who are seeking reproductive health care. In my circumstance, this was a pregnancy that I wanted and it is very common for wanted pregnancies to go wrong. It's incredibly common for wanted pregnancies to run into complications, to go wrong and to fail. So this wasn't a unique circumstance for me.

But there is no room for nuance in the abortion clinic in the state of Arizona. They have mandated counseling that they have to provide to their patients. But this isn't real counseling, because it isn't medical providers who are putting this counseling together. It's legislators who disapprove of abortion who are putting together this counseling. And exactly as you put it, it is a lecture. It's a sermon. It is intended to intimidate. It is intended to create guilt, to create confusion, and to create distrust in the relationship between the patient and the provider.

And in my case, it was absolutely cruel and factually inaccurate, multiple points of contention. They were telling me that that I could choose adoption that I could choose parenting, which obviously is a hateful thing to say to somebody who would like to parent a child and is struggling to conceive.

So that was the first point of contention for me. But they also are required to tell me that if I choose to continue the pregnancy that the father will be financially responsible and will have to support me. In my case also, not true I out earned my husband. So certainly he would not be required to financially support me. If things went wrong between the two of us and we split up, I would have to pay him child support. So that's just false. It is sexist the way that they have put this this counseling together for patients in Arizona. 

But yeah as a lawmaker, I was really horrified because I went through that two years ago when I, again, had an abortion two years ago for the same situation, a wanted pregnancy that went wrong.

But I didn't pay as close of attention to that counseling because I wasn't looking at it through the lens of a lawmaker. But when you really realize that this is our fault, this is the Arizona legislature who has put this in place, and that this is something that patients are having to experience, and it's wrong. It's fundamentally wrong, and it's objectively wrong. I think most people, regardless of party or religion, would be able to look at this counseling and look at the reality of who seeks abortion care and say, this isn't right. 

Jason Sattler: As we speak, right now, the repeal of the 1864 abortion ban -- the full, complete abortion ban -- has passed the house. Everyone keeps saying that it's very likely to pass the Senate as well and become law. Is that what it looks like to you inside the Senate?

Eva Burch: I do think that we will have to Republican senators with us. We had two Republican senators with us a couple weeks ago. That being said, I don't know how much pressure they're getting from people within their party.

I will tell you that at least one of those legislators was in considerable distress the day that vote was cast, and I know that they are being pressured by people within their party by the special interest groups that fund the campaigns. They're receiving a lot of pressure. I am concerned that two weeks have been able to go by since the last time we had to have this conversation. And I hope that they are still with us. So that does remain to be seen. 

But I think, yes, I do think that we're going to be able to get this through. The problem is that because we don't have two thirds of both chambers, which is what's required to put an emergency measure into play, we are stuck in a situation where it's going to be 90 days after the session ends before the repeal goes into effect.

The ban is scheduled to go into effect before that time. So we're still looking at the possibility of a a gap in the plan, where abortion access could absolutely shut down, which it did in the wake of Roe two years ago. Abortion clinics shut down all over the state of Arizona. We absolutely could be looking at that again because we were not able to get enough of the Republican caucus on our side. We also have this ballot initiative in November going back to the same Supreme Court that just honored a total abortion ban from the 1800s.

 So we have a lot of challenges still to face in Arizona . And really the most important thing that we could do, the only defense that we have is to flip the legislature, is to make sure that we are getting some of these radicalized extremists out of power in this state and making sure that we have a Democratic majority in at least one, if not both houses.

Jason Sattler: And Michigan has just been really uplifting to see a Republican government that was uplifted by minority rule replaced by a democratic and a Democratic, with a BDE, majority. That's something that's really possible in Arizona if I understand correctly. Can you give us an idea of how possible you think it is and how it has gotten so close that there's only one seat, Republican majority in both houses of your state legislature?

Eva Burch: What I will say is that Arizona has been trending blue for a very long time now. We have a lot of transplant plants, and of course we have a a very diverse population in this state that continues to diversify over time and to really be more reflective of of the rest of the country, really, and not to be such a Republican stronghold, which is how people really viewed us up until just the last few years.

We also did just have redistricting a couple of years ago, which was what made it possible for me to run. I was in a district where it was absolutely impossible for me to win and there would have been no point in my running. And now I am in what is probably the most competitive district in the state, or at least in the top two most competitive districts in the state where where they continue to put very extreme candidates forward on the Republican side.

And so I do think that has been part of what has worked to our advantage and allowed us to win a couple of these seats that are considered to be flex seats that are really could go in either direction. But because we have a primary process in Arizona that favors extremism. They continuously, on the Republican side of the aisle, are ousting anyone who is not leaning Heavy into far right extremist politics anybody who will not toe the line is primaried and ousted so they continue to do that really to their own peril because the Democrats are putting forward far more pragmatic and representative candidates for the state of Arizona.

And so I think that's been part of what's been helpful to us. I think that is also going to contribute to what really gives us a fair shot at tying or overturning in the Arizona legislature come November is that we have good candidates. We have better candidates than they do. 

Jason Sattler: Can you give us an idea how fair the maps are now? 

Eva Burch: We still have districts in Arizona that are absolutely true blue or deep red where where we already know what's going to happen in those districts. And the real race in those districts is the primary and not necessarily the general election . But we have several, I would say we have, between three and five districts where it really does hang in the balance. It really is up in the air. And sometimes we have districts where we wouldn't have thought that it was going to be a flippable district, but they put forward such unpopular, unliked candidates. And when they end up sending them to the legislature, they hold true to who they were in their campaigns, and they put forward lots of unpopular extremist legislation that moderate Republicans and find untenable and they are really more comfortable not voting or voting for a more moderate Democrat than staying with their party in the face of a very heinously extreme candidate. 

Jason Sattler: One good thing about this repeal it has reminded everyone how popular abortion rights are and the person who seems to know that better than anyone has Donald Trump, who will probably take credit for when this ban is repealed. 

And then you have Kari Lake -- who is running for Senator in Arizona, even though she insists that she's the governor -- and she basically decides her position on this based on whatever tweet she saw last. And then you have Republicans who realized that Arizona's want reproductive rights so much, that they want to name a ballot measure that restricts abortion after the ballot measure that would give people abortion rights.

What does this say about the politics that you're facing in November?

Eva Burch: What I will say is that when we see this flip flopping, it is purely about what is politically expedient in the moment. 

Because for the members of the Republican caucus who really don't have anything to lose, they'll just say the quiet parts out loud. We saw Rep. Parker when they were voting through the repeal of the ban last Wednesday, stood up and said, "When we put in the 15 week abortion ban, we all agreed, we all discussed it. All the Republicans were on the same exact page that what we wanted was the 1864 ban. And that this 15 week ban was just what we could do in the meantime, but that was always the end goal. I don't understand why anybody's turning around and saying anything different right now. We know what the eventual end game is." 

We know that they really do support the ban. Those of them who do not have much to lose will just tell you. They're not hiding it. That's what they want. So we have to keep that in mind.

Now, as far as a competing ballot measure, I think that the talk of a competing ballot measure is to make it look like the Republicans are doing something. I don't think they can get a competing ballot measure on the ballot. Not because it's difficult for them to put something on the ballot. It's not. That's all they've been doing. Instead of leading and instead of legislating, anytime they can't get what they want, instead of trying to find out what's the poison pill and how can we make a better bill that is more reflective of a broader Arizona, they just use their simple majority to put a ballot measure on. And they try to see if they can trick the voters into voting for it by giving it a fancy name or by messaging it in such a way as to make it appealing, even though it's a garbage bill.

So they could use their simple majority to put a more restrictive abortion ban up for a vote against the Arizona Abortion Access for All ballot measure. But but I don't think they have the votes for it because what that would mean, let's say that they're going to put up a bill that is an eight week ban or a 10 week ban. Something like that to vote for it because they need that simple majority and they only have a one seat majority. I know that there are members who there's no way that they are going to vote for any ban that isn't a complete ban. They're not going to agree to say, "Oh, okay, abortion is okay up to eight weeks or up to 10 weeks."

There's no way I don't see them being able to do that. I do not see some of these really extremist fundamentalist Republicans being willing to vote for any ban that still allows access to abortion up to a certain point in time. So I think it's just smoke and mirrors. I think they just want to have the appearance of doing something, but I don't think that they're going to be able to get that across the finish line.

Jason Sattler: Let's talk a worst-case scenario. Let's say the 1864 ban goes away. There's still a 15 week ban. And now the federal government's controlled by Donald Trump and the evangelical right. What do you think happens to the clinics in Arizona?

Eva Burch: We're going to, again, just see these rights being chipped away and eroded. It's what they've been doing in Arizona for years. The Republican led legislature has never seen a restrictive abortion member that they measure that they didn't like.

They will continue to create and to try to pass more and more restrictive laws. Now, of course, we have the governor right now, which makes a difference. But I do expect that they're going to look for workarounds because that's what they do. 

But this is a disaster for Arizona and for states all across the country in any event, if we have another Trump presidency. Because we saw what he was able to do in the time that he was there, to be able to stack the Supreme Court in such a way and to be able to do what he said he was going to do what we got to start believing people and they tell us what they're going to do, overturning Roe was always a goal. And I think that continuing to create more and more restrictive bans in more states across the country is the goal. They're going to continue to do this and we are going to have to continue to fight. So I think that the state of reproductive health care in Arizona will absolutely be at risk.

What I will say is that I know that our partners and that the the clinics that are running now have strong support and have wonderful staff. I just felt like I was in such good hands in that clinic. And I know that they are going to do everything in their power to stay operational and to serve the people of this state and to make sure that patients have the care that they need.

Health care options that they need and deserve and that they have the best possible outcomes. But of course, with a Republican majority and with a Trump presidency, that is absolutely at risk. And they were able to shut down all the clinics before. And if they can do it again, they will. So we have to be incredibly vigilant and we have to do everything that we can to create these protections at the state level.

And right now, all I can think of about is flipping the legislature in Arizona. That's our only protection if we end up in another Trump presidency. 

Jason Sattler: Is it the fear of a Republican opponent who hates abortion even more than they do winning the primary that keeps them from doing things like considering a right to birth control. I know Democrats recently brought that up. It didn't result in a law, but it led to the Republican Senate majority leader, not a gynecologist, suggesting instead of birth control, women could just take an aspirin and put it between their knees.

Eva Burch: They wouldn't bring it up for a vote. But what I will tell you is that sometimes we have an opportunity to bring those things to light because it's a topic of interest in the media of the day.

 But that is our reality all the time. We have had less than a handful of our bills in the Senate make their way to the governor's desk out of, a couple hundred or more that we sponsored. So the Republicans are running the legislature like a supermajority. They just won't let us have a seat at the table. They just won't let us have our bills even heard in committee, much less be brought to the floor for a vote. And in a state that has such a diverse population... We are a thoughtful Arizona. We are a collaborative Arizona. And that's not what is happening in the Republican-led legislature right now. They are shutting us out to the point where millions of Arizonans Democrats, yes, but also independents and also more moderate leaning Republicans do not have any voice at all. If you're not leaning into far right party politics, they don't want your bills. 

Jason Sattler: Republicans refusing to admit that they live in a 50/50 state is very familiar to us at Michigan. And then Democrats were able to take both houses. There was a backlog, just a ton of things that they wanted to pass. And they passed many, many of them. What would be on the top of your wishlist for things that could actually become law should the Trifacta actually happen?

Eva Burch: Of course, because of my interest in reproductive healthcare, I have a number of things. We got it for starters, we have to get rid of the track laws, all of these extra laws that the Republicans have put in play to make abortion inaccessible or uncomfortable for patients -- the counseling, the waiting periods -- things like that need to go.

I think that there's also a number of budget priorities that need to change in Arizona. We sometimes make really bad decisions about making sure that there are tax breaks for people who don't need them. And we are underfunding the programs that people really rely on to be able to care for their families here in Arizona.

I think that we have some water policy that is really important that needs to make its way through, conservation efforts and also our groundwater in our rural communities. That really, again, is going to have long term impacts on the people of Arizona, where we just can't get bipartisan collaborative solutions, not because they don't exist, but because of the leadership.

I do think that Democrats and Republicans in Arizona agree on some things, but we can't get any of that good bipartisan legislation across the finish line if it's not towing the line of what the extremist Republican Majority leadership wants. So that's really where we're getting stuck. So I think water policy is really important.

I think addressing our housing crisis is also really important. We have a terrible problem with homelessness being on the rise and with very unaffordable housing in this state and with a lack of affordable housing options for those who are otherwise ready to buy in to move on with their lives.

It's very difficult for first time home buyers in Arizona. Unless you have several tens of thousands of dollars saved up, you're never going to be able to get a home. You're never going to have the down payment that you need. And that is in a very unsustainable trajectory right now where the price of housing just continues to go up and plateau and then go up and then plateau. And really it's becoming a situation where nobody can afford a home unless they're independently wealthy or otherwise well kept. 

Jason Sattler: You're still a nurse practitioner. You're a legislator. You're a mom. How are you able to make all that work and campaign? And what does a campaign in Arizona look like? I know it's like 1,010 degrees, from now until Election Day?

Eva Burch: I will tell you, I knocked on 2000 doors last time around and it is 110, 115, 120 degrees out there. Sometimes, it is rough. I won't pretend it's not. It's so important to us to really win this race on the ground. We have to be talking to our constituents if we want to be successful in these really dicey races where it could go one way or the other. 

But as far as being able to find balance in my life, I don't have a lot of it right now.

I'll be honest especially with the way that the abortion media push has been happening right now. And I've been working closely with the Biden Harris reelection campaign on several things as well. And and trying to make sure that I'm attending to my family. I have. To young children who still need their mother and I'm working a full-time job as a nurse practitioner.

I work in an opioid use disorder clinic and that community. I also care for so deeply and I want to be there for them as well. So I won't pretend like I'm not spread very thin because I certainly am. But all of it matters so much. And it's so important to me to know that this impact is going to make its way to November.

And so it is all hands on deck and I'm just going to have to push through until this November election and then hopefully be able to make some decisions after that about how to trim the fat and live a life that I can do all the things that I care about and still fulfill my obligations to my family and myself.

But but for the time being, I'm saying yes to everything. I'm just trying to get things done and make sure that we can cross the finish line in November. There's just nothing more important. It's too important for too many people. It's going to have too much of an impact for too many families in this state. And I feel a very heavy sense of responsibility. 

But we are incredibly grateful for the partnerships that we have and would say So many individuals and organizations who are willing to help us, who are willing to donate their time, their money, their efforts, making calls, sending texts. We just have so many meaningful coalitions and it is a team effort, it's a community effort, to make sure that we are we are getting this done. 

And we're going to do it. 

Jason Sattler: Well, Senator Burch it has been an honor to speak with you. You've confirm my belief that Arizona needs to be the next Michigan. That's the very least you deserve. 

Thank you so much for your time.

Eva Burch: Thank you. And anytime. I appreciate the opportunity to make sure that this message is reaching as many people as possible and that we're all doing our part to create a better future for reproductive health care in Arizona and across the country.